Dr. Susan Block, Ph.D.
Sex Therapy Was Never Like This!
Dr. Susan Block, PhD, is a world-renowned sexologist, best-selling author, award-winning filmmaker, radio and TV talk show host, columnist, lecturer and commentator. She is also the founder of the Dr. Susan Block Institute for the Erotic Arts & Sciences, an internationally renowned center for sex exploration, expression, education, investigation and therapy... We're also pretty sure that she pioneered the "Big Sexy Hat Look" that many swingers seem to be so fond of nowadays.
Kasidie had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Susan Block via telephone last week... We would like to mention what a terrible shame it is that the following is only a printed interview... Because Dr. Block has an incredibly sexy phone voice.
KASIDIE: Let's pretend for a moment you are at a career day. How would you describe what you do for a living?
DR. BLOCK: I'm a brain surgeon but I just deal with your brain in a very spiritual and sexual way... Not with scalpals and knives, but with fantasies and desires. My business cards say I'm a sex therapist. That's my day job.
KASIDIE: There are a lot of sex therapists out there, but anyone who knows you, has met you, or has even heard of you, would attest that you're not an ordinary run-of-the-mill sex therapist. What sets you apart from a regular sex therapist?
DR. BLOCK: I dance to the beat of my own drummer and I kinda do it my way... sex therapy. I do a lot of it over the telephone – I probably talk on the telephone to 90% of my clients. I don't see them in person all that often because I think sexuality is a subject that more people are comfortable talking about over the telephone. I don't have any subjects that are off limits in terms of what we can talk about. People tell me that when they've gone to other sex therapists there were certain things they couldn't talk about, or certain ways of talking that they couldn't use.
KASIDIE: Why do you think that is?
DR. BLOCK: Well, therapists are afraid for the most part of stepping over boundaries... and I'm all about stepping over boundaries. I set my own boundaries that I don't step over. But I guess I don't subscribe to the typical boundaries and concepts of sex therapy. Also, because of the other things I do. I do a show... But that doesn't really make me unique, because a lot of sex therapists do shows now.
KASIDIE: But not all of them do shows like yours.
DR. BLOCK: None of them do shows like mine. My style of sex therapy is very different and my show is very different. It weaves together the mental, the physical and the spiritual. It really deals with sex in a very holistic way I feel, but even just saying that doesn't really explain what makes me different. I talk to all kinds of sex experts from professors to porn stars. The professors tend to just talk and smoke a pipe, while the porn stars tend to not only talk, but demonstrate their talents.
KASIDIE: So one type of guest shows and the other type tells?
DR. BLOCK: Well, yeah every once in awhile you get a porn star that demonstrates her knowledge of the history of the Enlightenment, and every once in a while you get a professor that demonstrates a blowjob. But for the most part the pornstars demonstrate the blowjobs and the professors talk about history and science and literature and all the other things that affect our sexuality. I just think sex is the essence of life and it is influenced by many different subjects so I deal with these many different subjects over the course of the show.
KASIDIE: So how did you end up in this line of work?
DR. BLOCK: Have I ended up somewhere?
KASIDIE: Well I guess you haven't ended up yet. But how did you get to where you are right now? What was your background like?
DR. BLOCK: I was born and raised in Philadelphia, PA in a fairly conservative family. Definitely a nuclear family, both parents stayed married. It was a typical suburban middle class upbringing – maybe leaning towards upper middle class. I certainly didn't want for anything in life... except sexual knowledge. I think that's why I got into the field. Because I was a student – a good student. I went to Yale, I won a lot of awards... But the one subject that was tough for me to learn about was sex. So I made it my life's work.
KASIDIE: Why was it so difficult to learn about sex while you were in school?
DR. BLOCK: It wasn't really a subject that was being taught in an open way at that time. We did have sex ed classes, but they were just about sperm and eggs, they weren't about feelings. I was very interested in these feelings and so were all my friends. Not only my friends, but people that I'd meet around the world. It was something that was of common interest to everyone, yet so rarely spoken about openly, so it fascinated me.
“I love to talk about bonobo chimpanzees with swingers... It's funny, because I also love to talk about swingers with primatologists.”
KASIDIE: There are a lot of subjects in the world that aren't talked about openly. So why sex? Was it something in you?
DR. BLOCK: Well yeah, I think it's inherently in all of us, to be sexual. I think that we feel these sexual feelings and they're pretty powerful. I had sexual feelings within me that were powerful and I had questions that weren't being answered... and I wanted those answers. You know, the field of sexuality is a little bit like a tantalizing teasing lover in that just when he shows me what he's got, there's more mystery. Just when I think I have mastery of his mystery there's something else that boggles my mind. So it keeps my interest.
KASIDIE: If the thirst for sexual knowledge and expression is in all of us, why do so many people give up on trying to learn more about it? Why do most people just accept the idea that sex is something we aren't supposed to talk about?
DR. BLOCK: Thats a good question and I think that therein lies how I'm different. And I've always been different. I think therein lies the answer to why someone is a revolutionary and someone else is a functionary. We all have the same feelings, we all have the same arms and legs, we all breathe the same way... But some people are driven in one direction or another. I was driven in this direction. I'm not sure why.
KASIDIE: As you know, Kasidie Magazine focuses on the swinging lifestyle. What has your experience been in regards to the swinging lifestyle? I know you've spoken at quite a few swingers conventions in the past.
DR. BLOCK: Yes I have. My experience with the swinging lifestyle is that it's fantastic, for the most part. Of course there are the ups and downs and sometimes you go to a party you don't like. It is a very exciting and viable lifestyle. It certainly fits in with my philosophy of ethical hedonism. It seems to be a great way to maintain a long term emotionally monogamous relationship and at the same time fullfill needs that are never fulfilled by monogamy and marriage.
KASIDIE: What do you speak about when you're at these conventions?
DR. BLOCK: Well I speak about different things, sometimes I speak about swinging itself. Although, I don't know that I'm the swinging expert. I mean I'm kind of a soft swinger myself... Usually. There's always exceptions. I've also talked about the subjects of my book: The 10 commandments of a Ladies Pleasure as well as The 10 Commandments of a Gentleman's Pleasure. I've done lectures on Bonobos. That's always a big hit with swingers because Bonobo Chimpanzees really show us the swinging lifestyle in the primate world.
KASIDIE: Ooh, I was hoping to talk to you about bonobos. I'm sure that most people have never heard of Bonobos Chimpanzees before. So when they hear you talking about chimps to swingers in the same sentence, they're likely to ask, "What the heck is the connection?" For those who've never heard of bonobos can you talk about that a little?
DR. BLOCK: I love to talk about bonobos with swingers... it's funny, because I also love to talk about swingers with primatologists.
KASIDIE: I thought you were going to say that you like to talk about swingers with bonobos!
DR. BLOCK: Well I tried, but Bonobos don't speak English. They speak sign language but it's hard to understand them completely.
KASIDIE: Too bad, because I've got some stories I could tell them!
DR. BLOCK: Yeah I bet you do! The primatologists are always very interested in human swingers because they look at bonobo behavior and say, "Wow, this is totally out of this world!" But as any swinger will tell you, it is not so out of this world. But anyway, let me explain Bonobos. Bonobos also called Pygmy Chimpanzees are a type of Chimpanzee. Much like common chimpanzees they are 98.8% genetically similar to humans. People say they might have the intelligence level of a 7 year old human. So there's a lot of similarities between both common chimps and bonobo chimps and humans. One very big difference between common chimps and bonobos is that bonobos have a lot more sex. Bonobos really have sex all year round. Common chimps only have sex when the female is in heat like most other primates and most other animals. Bonobo females hide their estrus just like human females do, so they have sex all year round. The females also have genitalia that is rotated forward like humans, as opposed to behind. With common chimps and most other animals, the female genitalia is rotated towards the behind so they're pretty much always having sex in the doggy style position... There is nothing wrong with doggy style... But the bonobos are able to do it in all different positions and they have a lot of sex face to face.
KASIDIE: Sounds like humans.
DR. BLOCK: That's not all. Bonobo females often initiate sex. They have a lot of group sex. They have oral sex.They have masturbation. They might partner up for a few weeks or months, but they tend to have sex with all different members of the community. They have sex as a form of commerce, so to speak, like..."I'll give you a blow job if you give me a banana." They also – and this is most fascinating – they use sex to reduce violent tension. That is...."Don't be upset. Come sit on my face."
KASIDIE: Hmm... I'm going to use that line next time I get in an argument with someone.
DR. BLOCK: There you go! It works. I call it The Bonobo Way, Peace through pleasure. Certainly bonobos use it to reduce physically violent tension. But I think it works with human couples who just argue and fight. Sometimes a little bit of sex inserted in the right way, so to speak, really works. You got to be sensitive about it. Bonobos are incredibly sensitive creatures. They look deep into each others eyes like tantric sex practitioners. When they have sex they don't look all over the place like a lot of humans do. They are also very attentive to each other's needs, very caring. They might have a little bit of violence, it's not like their completely non-violent. They've been seen biting each other. They've even bitten pretty hard, to the point of biting off part of a finger.
KASIDIE: I was about to say that a little bit of biting during sex can be good... But that does sound excessive.
DR. BLOCK: What I'm saying is they can have problems. It's not like they're angels. The point is, bonobos have never been seen killing each other. And they've never done anything really deadly.
KASIDIE: So they don't have crimes of passion?
DR. BLOCK: Not lethal crime. I guess what we're saying is that these are not in another world from us. They are close to us and they show us the way. If they were completely non-violent I'd say, "Well, that's impossible for human beings to be like that, we have violence ingrained in us." Bonobos have violence ingrained in them too, but they use sexual passion to channel that violent energy away from brutality, and away from killing. In a kind of similar way I think S&M and bondage people channel their violent energy into a sexual activity. It's not like they don't feel the violent tension. They feel it and they may sometimes get out of hand with it, but they generally channel it. It's the same energy that makes you want to have different partners. That is the energy that bonobos accept. It's not like they don't ever get jealous. I have seen bonobos get jealous and very upset about somebody having sex with somebody they wanted to have sex with... But they work it out. They accept that they are going to have sex with different people and that jealousy and other emotions come into play. They seem to have ways to work it out.
“I think there are many aspects to bisexuality. I don't think it's one thing. In my humble opinion we're all bisexual. It's just that we don't all act on it.”
KASIDIE: It sounds like you're describing the discussion that a human couple might have before going to their first swinger party.
DR. BLOCK: Well, yeah. If couples want a little inspiration I would advise them to read about bonobos and even go see them at the zoo in San Diego. They're very cool.
KASIDIE: Yeah, I've seen the ones in San Diego. I was learning about them at the same time that I got into the lifestyle. It was interesting to think about all the similarities there were not only between bonobos and swingers, but between common chimpanzees and vanillas. Common chimpanzees are a male dominated society I believe, more like vanillas.
DR. BLOCK: Yes the common chimps are male dominated and while bonobos are not really female dominant, they are highly egalitarian. I wouldn't say that common chimps are vanilla though. They're not totally monogamous either.
KASIDIE: But the common male chimpanzees really hoard their females, like they are regarded as their property. If another male tries to mate with them there is a lot of anger, jealousy and violence.
DR. BLOCK: Well, common chimps fight. They fight hard-core. Bonobos haven't banished jealousy from their emotional repertoire. It's just that they are more into sharing. They know how to deal with the jealousy. We're all pretty close. We're 98.8% similar. We have all the same emotions, it's just that they balance them out so they don't have violence. I just think we have a lot to learn from them. I don't think they're superior to us. They do have something to teach us. They have a way to show us how to channel our sexuality into an exciting peaceful varied sexlife. That's the bonobo way.
KASIDIE: You have a DVD by that name, don't you?
DR. BLOCK: Yes, I have a DVD called The Bonobo Way. I also have a chapter in my book, The 10 Commandments of Pleasure, called The Bonobo Way.
KASIDIE: Several news articles came out a few months ago about a scientific study about female bisexuality.
DR. BLOCK: I haven't heard about that study.
KASIDIE: It said that bisexuality in women was no longer considered to be a transitional phase on the way to lesbianism but a distinct sexual orientation... I laughed at when I read it because swingers could have told them the same thing and probably saved them a lot of money in research.
DR. BLOCK: I think there's many aspects to bisexuality. I don't think it's one thing. In my humble opinion we're all bisexual. It's just that we don't all act on it. I look at bonobos and they're all bisexual.
KASIDIE: Both bonobo females and males are bisexual?
DR. BLOCK: Yes, both sexes. The females are more expressive of it. Even in bonobo society female bisexuality is more acceptable.
KASIDIE: Really??
DR. BLOCK: But the males are also bisexual and you see it especially in moments of violent tension. When they get violent they turn it in another direction, they have sex with each other. I think that's almost too much for our human society to take, which is why we have so much violence. Probably a lot of the violence that human males exhibit towards each other is sexual. It's just that we don't accept that.
KASIDIE: That's interesting. I guess that there is something to that, because when you get two men together with their testosterone and adrenaline all flared up there is really no culturally acceptable outlet for that energy other than violence. As opposed to violence as our society is supposed to be, we'd probably make a bigger deal out of a hand-job than a stabbing.
DR. BLOCK: While most swingers tend not to be into the guys having sex with each other – There are exceptions, of course – But I do tend to think that guys enjoy swinging partly because they like to watch their women with other men, because that satisfies certain bisexual feelings that they have... Feelings that they would probably be horrified to hear described as bisexual.
KASIDIE: [Laughing] I'm imagining the looks on guys' faces as they read this.
DR. BLOCK: Oh yeah, they'll say, "I'm not gay!" – and I'm not saying they're gay – But I do feel that "bisexuality" simply means that we get turned on by both sexes. That's what bisexuality means. Of course there are those guys that go to swing parties solely to get a lot of women for themselves... But a lot of these guys want to see their woman with another man. Now of course, some of this is altruistic; They like to see their woman experiencing pleasure. Part of this is tit for tat; They want their woman to be with another man so they can be with the other woman. But I think a really big part of it – and as a therapist I talk to guys about this all the time – they get really turned on seeing another man with their woman. Part of that is about seeing the man with the woman. Why do you think porn is so popular? Really, porn is usually about one guy sitting there and watching a girl that he's attracted to having sex with another man.
KASIDIE: You're probably totally blowing a lot of guys' minds right now. I actually agree with you. I just never thought of it that way.
DR. BLOCK: That being said, I'm not trying to say that, "Oh, you guys have to start sucking each other off." I am not saying that at all. Because people have different things they want to do or not do. I'm just saying part of the excitement of the swing party for the man is that there are other men there.
KASIDIE: It's like how most men wouldn't choose to only watch porn that involved a girl with a sex toy. It's not the same as her being with a real penis.
DR. BLOCK: And there's a lot of porn out there that's lesbian, or just a girl that is out there and it's very popular. But the most popular porn for a guy to watch is a girl he's attracted to having sex with another man.
KASIDIE: Often more than just one man.
DR. BLOCK: Yeah, true. That is a big turn on for a lot of guys who don't consider themselves gay, and I wouldn't call them gay. I might say they're bi. See, I have a very elastic definition of the word bi.
KASIDIE: Apparently! [Laughs]
DR. BLOCK: I do. I think if you like to imagine another guy with a girl you're attracted to... I call that bi. I just feel that bisexuality is huge. If we want to get more specific, I'd say that if you just want to have sex with someone of the same gender, then that's gay.
KASIDIE: One of the most frequent comments I get about swinging from my male vanilla friends is how they can't handle the idea of having sex with a girl in the same room as another naked man. They say things like, "I'd need to know that there's at least two walls in between me and the nearest erect penis in order to function!"
DR. BLOCK: Do you ask them if they watch porn? Because if they watch porn there's another guy there. If they're nervous that's another thing, because they feel competition with the other guy. Swinger guys are excited by that competition. Are you familiar with the concept of Sperm Wars?
KASIDIE: [Laughs] I'm assuming that's not the name of a porn film... I think I remember reading about the concept of "Sperm Wars" somewhere in your writings. Why don't you explain it.
DR. BLOCK: Sperm Wars is an exciting concept that relates to what we're talking about. It's why I feel that most guys have a slight bi streak. They used to think that all sperm was the same. Have you ever seen the old movie with Woody Allen where he's dressed up as a sperm and they're all racing to the egg? They're all racers like marathon runners. They have since discovered that there are different types of sperm and they are not all the same. Instead of being like a bunch of marathon runners, they're more like a football team or warriors in which they have different positions in the war. So some play offense, some play defense and some are the quarterback carrying the ball.
KASIDIE: Go team!
DR. BLOCK: When a man first gets excited by a new woman, he doesn't know how many guys she's been with. Maybe he knows she's a virgin, but even then, he doesn't know how many men she'll be with later. But usually he doesn't know she's a virgin, so it's very exciting. He's very excited and gets a very firm erection and the whole football team is there. These sperm are there not just to run to the egg but also to kill another man's sperm or to protect the runner sperm from the other man's offense sperm. This is why a man assembles a whole football team. Now, after he gets to know her and they become monogamous and get married, he might still think she's the most beautiful sexy woman on earth, he might love her, but he doesn't feel that there's any rivals or competition. If he doesn't feel like another man might have sex with her, then nature takes it course and nature conserves his sperm. Nature makes it so that he doesn't feel the need to get all that sperm together. He still gets an erection, but it's not as strong as it was before they became a monogamous couple. Of course he'll ejaculate, but it won't be as strong an ejaculation because he doesn't feel he has to compete with another man's sperm. However, if he feels his woman could be with another man, his testicles are going to manufacture all those different kind of sperm to do offense, defense and running. So he's going to have a stronger erection and a stronger ejaculation. This is why swingers love to swing. Swinger men love it because they get a stronger ejaculation with their same old wife. This is why guys that are monogamous for years and years ‰ no matter how much they love their wife... They're not going to be as excited because they're not worried about the competition.
KASIDIE: But it's not really "worry" with swinger men. They're not dwelling on whether foreign sperm will be entering their lady...
DR. BLOCK: Right, it's not really worry. Swinger men kind of get into this sense of Zen about it. But you've heard of the jealous guy who catches his girl cheating. A crime of passion is committed because he's turned on. "Oh my God!", he feels, "Not only am I mad and embarrassed... But I'm turned on!" He's more turned on than ever, and that drives him crazy, so he shoots them both.
KASIDIE: So the "worry" you're talking about (at least when it comes to swingers) is very much on a primal level? It's not conscious worry?
DR. BLOCK: Yeah, it's a sub-conscious competition. That's probably a better way to put it. Men love competition. The idea is that you're not really competing. I mean if you're honestly worried that your wife is going to run off with another man, that kills it.
KASIDIE: If you ask any swinger couple, they'll usually tell you that the sex between the two of them after they have been at a good swinger party, is phenomenal.
DR. BLOCK: Yes, and I think that women are wired for the same thing. Although maybe it's not as clear biologically.
KASIDIE: Let me ask about another study that's been in the news. Have you heard the new studies about spanking?
DR. BLOCK: Yeah I did read that study.
KASIDIE: It said that spanking children leads them to engage in risky and deviant sexual behaviour as adults.
DR. BLOCK: Of course you read these studies and you think "What does deviant mean?" Does that mean you like spanking? If that's the worst that can happen, that's not so big a deal. But personally I advise people not to spank their children, because I don't think it's a good idea to be violent towards children. But I think spanking is great between adults.
KASIDIE: What upset me in the report was that their list of "risky deviant behavior" included a "greater chance of unprotected sex" and "great chance of forcing someone into sex". I couldn't believe that they lumped the enjoyment of BDSM into the same category as those legitimately harmful things.
DR. BLOCK: Darling, we're talking about mainstream media here. What do you expect?
KASIDIE: [Sighs] Yeah...
DR. BLOCK: I mean they think BDSM is as deviant as not wanting to wear a condom. They think spanking leads to strangling. That's just how the mainstream media is. I believe the enjoyment of spanking is almost natural. I don't think of it as something kinky.
KASIDIE: Do bonobos spank each other?
DR. BLOCK: Oh yeah, constantly. They think it's fun. See, here's the thing... We are violent creatures. The thing about spanking is it's a way to channel your violent energy into the least harmful part of your friends body. It is a simple way to channel that primal energy. Whether you're fantasizing that it's your daddy or your teacher or that you're a prisoner of war... Now that's very particular. And whether you do it with a 2x4 or just your hand, that's also very particular. But the idea of striking the rear end is very animalistic. It's beyond kinky.
KASIDIE: Let's talk about female ejaculation.
DR. BLOCK: I love to talk about female ejaculation. You can find a lot of information about squirting on my website. I think we have the best dvd on how to squirt or help your partner squirt.
KASIDIE: You seem to be one of the experts on this subject. Is it something that literally any female can do? Because that's been an ongoing topic of debate among a lot of swingers.
DR. BLOCK: I'm not sure. I think any woman can do it. I've certainly helped to teach a lot of women. But there have been a few women that I haven't been able to teach. But those were the women who didn't really want it. Their boyfriend wanted them to, but they didn't really want to.
KASIDIE: Or maybe they're just not drinking enough water?
DR. BLOCK: [Laughs] That's true, you do have to drink a lot of water. I believe that you have to be really motivated. And you have to pee beforehand so you know that what's coming out of you isn't urine. So it's something you have to be motivated to do, for sure. It's a balance of motivation and relaxation. So some people are motivated but are tense and holding back and that can make it very difficult. But I do think that it's possible for any woman to ejaculate. I'm actually working with some scientists and gynecologists who want to do some further studies on this to get more definitive answers. So right now I'll say that almost any woman can do it.
KASIDIE: I'm sure many of our readers would be really interested in the results you find. It's something that's very popular in the swinging lifestlye. I've seen a lot of swinger women teach each other. Squirting tends to spread like wildfire.
DR. BLOCK: It spreads like water... Holy water.
KASIDIE: Holy water... I like that. Dr. Block, thank you so much for taking the time to share with us.
DR. BLOCK: My pleasure.
If you are interested in learning more about Dr. Susan Block, her research or her show, visit her on the web at www.DrSusanBlock.com. Dr. Block is also available by phone for sex therapy sessions at 1.866.289.7068
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